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#quoteboost

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Replied in thread
@Garry Knight @qurly(not curly)joe This, by the way, is something that next to nobody in the Fediverse knows, and that many will deny and fight with all they can:

Alt-text must never include exclusive information that is neither in the post text nor in the image itself. Such information must always go into the post itself. If you don't have room in the post, add it to a reply or multiple.

That's because not everybody can access alt-text. Certain physical disabilities can make accessing alt-text impossible, for example, if someone can't use their hands. Money quote from way down this comment thread:

Deborah schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Mon, 10 Jul 2023 23:30:45 +0200 @jupiter_rowland

I have a disability that prevents me from seeing alt text, because on almost all platforms, seeing the alt requires having a screenreader or working hands. If you post a picture, is there info that you want somebody who CAN see the picture but DOESN’T have working hands to know? Write that in visible text. If you put that in the alt, you are explicitly excluding people like me.

But you don’t have to overthink it. The description of the image itself is a simple concept.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Inclusion #A11y #Accessibility #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
hub.netzgemeinde.euHow far should alt-text for pictures from within virtual worlds go?Super-long rant about accessibility, the length of alt-texts for pictures taken in virtual worlds and incompatibility issues between Mastodon and Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@David Mitchell :CApride:
Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.


Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse.

Jupiter Rowland wrote the following post Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200

You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phone

Allegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone.

Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo.

If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply.

If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus.

If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description.

Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want.

@accessibility group @a11y group

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Inclusion #A11y #Accessibility

CC: @Monstreline @Claire (sometimes Carla) @qurly(not curly)joe

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
hub.netzgemeinde.euJupiter RowlandAn avatar roaming the decentralised and federated 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator, a free and open-source server-side re-implementation of Second Life. Mostly talking about OpenSim, sometimes about other virtual worlds, occasionally about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. No, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. If you're looking for real-life people posting about real-life topics, go look somewhere else. This channel is never about real life. Even if you see me on Mastodon, I'm not on Mastodon myself. I'm on [url=https://hubzilla.org]Hubzilla[/url] which is neither a Mastodon instance nor a Mastodon fork. In fact, it's older and much more powerful than Mastodon. And it has always been connected to Mastodon. I regularly write posts with way more than 500 characters. If that disturbs you, block me now, but don't complain. I'm not on Mastodon, I don't have a character limit here. I rather give too many content warnings than too few. But I have absolutely no means of blanking out pictures for Mastodon users. I always describe my images, no matter how long it takes. My posts with image descriptions tend to be my longest. Don't go looking for my image descriptions in the alt-text; they're always in the post text which is always hidden behind a content warning due to being over 500 characters long. If you follow me, and I "follow" you back, I don't actually follow you and receive your posts. Unless you've got something to say that's interesting to me within the scope of this channel, or I know you from OpenSim, I'll most likely deny you the permission to send me your posts. I only "follow" you back because Hubzilla requires me to do that to allow you to follow me. But I do let you send me your comments and direct messages. If you boost a lot of uninteresting stuff, I'll block you boosts. My "birthday" isn't my actual birthday but my rezday. My first avatar has been around since that day. If you happen to know German, maybe my "homepage" is something for you, a blog which, much like this channel, is about OpenSim and generally virtual worlds. #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim]OpenSim[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator]OpenSimulator[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds]VirtualWorlds[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse]Metaverse[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=SocialVR]SocialVR[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=fedi22]fedi22[/zrl]
Replied in thread
@Matthias Die Quote-Posts an sich vielleicht nicht. Möglicherweise übernehmen sie dieselbe Technologie wie Misskey, weil Threads die auch hat.

Aber das Opt-In wird nur innerhalb von Mastodon funktionieren.

#CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
@Lioh Und genau das wurde auf Twitter eingesetzt als Waffe gegen Angehörige von Minderheiten (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQQIA+ etc.). Im Grunde kennt man das als Twitter-User nur dafür.

Noch ein Grund, warum so viele von da nach Mastodon geflohen sind: weil Mastodon keine Quote-Posts/Drükos/Drukos hat.

Was aber kaum jemand auf Mastodon weiß: Das Fediverse hat sehr wohl Quote-Posts. Praktisch alles, was Mikro- oder Makroblogging macht und nicht "Mastodon" heißt, kann quote-posten. Und kann auch Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten.

Aussage, die ich gerade bekommen habe: Hubzilla und (streams) hätten nie die Möglichkeit haben dürfen, Mastodon-Tröts zu quote-posten, weil Mastodon sich gegen Quote-Posts entschieden hat.

Nur: Zum einen war 2016 das Nichtimplementieren von Quote-Posts keine Entscheidung zum Schutz von Twitter-Flüchtlingen, sondern zum Vereinfachen von Mastodon. Zum anderen müßten wahrscheinlich mehr als 60 Fediverse-Serveranwendungen für Mastodon eine Ausnahme einbauen.

Was für Twitter-Flüchtlinge auf Mastodon auch völlig unvorstellbar ist: Quote-Posts sind in fast 15 Jahren Friendica nie mißbräuchlich genutzt worden. Und überall sonst, was Quote-Posts kann, auch nicht.

Übrigens ist auch das wieder so ein Fall, wo Mastodon-Nutzer versuchen, dem gesamten Fediverse die Mastodon-Kultur aufzuzwingen und Features, die Mastodon nicht hat, wegzunehmen.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@PaulaToThePeople
Mastodon decided against quote posts so far, so Hubzilla and (streams) should not allow quoting Mastodon posts.

I mean, I could propose to Mike, Mario and Harald to automatically remove the Share button under any and all posts and comments from Mastodon, just to see their reactions.

But as a matter of fact, Pleroma and Akkoma can quote-post Mastodon toots just the same. The same goes for Misskey and its over 50 forks, including but not limited to JavaScript-based Iceshrimp which won't get any new features, Iceshrimp.NET which isn't officially released yet, Sharkey, CherryPick and Catodon. And Friendica can quote-post Mastodon toots, too.

Several dozen Fediverse server projects can quote-post Mastodon toots. They all would have to change. Or they all would have had to change the moment that it was decided that Mastodon lacks quote-posts to protect its users rather than to stay simple.

And where are you reading that Mastodon will reinvent the wheel? To me it reads like they are working on Fediverse-wide interoperability for these features.

That has been Mastodon's track record since its very inception. I won't believe that anything has changed about this until Mastodon actually implements technology introduced by another Fediverse server project.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@PaulaToThePeople It isn't just a matter of consent. Besides, for example, I do have quote-post control here on Hubzilla.

I can give permission to quote-post my posts to
  • everyone in the Fediverse
  • everyone on Hubzilla and (streams)
  • everyone on this hub
  • approved and unapproved connections
  • only approved connections
  • only those of my connections whom I explicitly give permission by contact role
  • nobody but myself

Over on (streams), I can still give that permission to
  • everyone in the Fediverse
  • all my connections
  • only myself + specific connections whom I grant that permission either by permission role or by individual connection settings

It's much more a matter of technology.

Mastodon is about to completely re-invent the wheel with a non-standard, Mastodon-only setting. This setting will only work within Mastodon simply because it probably won't even be documented anywhere, especially not before it's officially rolled out.

There simply is no way that every last instance of Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Catodon, Meisskey, Tanukey, Neko, dozens of other Misskey forks, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. etc. will have that setting implemented before Mastodon rolls it out so that even the users on mastodon.social are perfectly safe from the first second on.

Besides, @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️, creator of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte and still the only maintainer of the latter two, will never introduce proprietary Mastodon features to them. He'd rather risk (streams) and Forte becoming incompatible with Mastodon. The same goes for @Mario Vavti and @Harald Eilertsen, Hubzilla's main maintainers.

If Mastodon wants to become a perfectly safe haven against unallowed quote-posting, it has only got one choice: It must introduce something like (streams)' and Forte's user agent filter and use it to block just everything that isn't Mastodon. Like, include a hard-coded allowlist that only includes Mastodon plus what little can't quote or quote-post anyway.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #CherryPick #Sharkey #Catodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@PaulaToThePeople @Stefan Bohacek Keep one thing in mind:

Mastodon may not have quote-posts yet. But the Fediverse has quote-posts right now. And it has had them since before Mastodon was made.

Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Catodon, Meisskey, Tanukey, Neko, dozens of other Misskey forks, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. etc., they all have quote-posts. They're all fully capable of quote-posting any Mastodon toot.

None of them has introduced quote-posts to harass Twitter refugees on Mastodon. At least Friendica and Hubzilla have had quote-posts since long before Mastodon was even made.

You will be able to choose whether your posts can be quoted at all.

At least by Mastodon users.

But since this will be Mastodon re-inventing the wheel with brand-new, proprietary, Mastodon-only technology, everything I've listed above will still be able to quote-post anyone and anything on Mastodon with zero resistance.

To quote-post myself and the guy who invented Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:

Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Sat, 20 Jul 2024 01:29:11 +0200 I think I've just chased someone out of the Fediverse.

That someone was afraid of Mastodon being "screwed over" by becoming quote-post-able.

I've told him the truth: Mastodon has been quote-post-able for as long as it has been around. Mastodon became quote-post-able the very moment it was launched.

That's because when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated with Friendica which is from 2010, which had been around for almost six years at that point, and which has had quote-posts from its own inception AFAIK. Mastodon also immediately federated with Hubzilla which has had quote-posts since its own inception, since it had been forked from Friendica, and that was in 2012.

Mastodon has never been un-quote-post-able.

Right now, there are dozens of Fediverse server apps whose users can quote-post Mastodon toots with no resistance.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Sat, 20 Jul 2024 03:18:39 +0200 The closest you'll ever get to making Mastodon un-quote-postable is to post privately. Not unlisted. Private. Most fediverse software will honour this today; and it doesn't require yet another "pretend permission". Like unlisted.

And Mike should know. He brought things to the Fediverse like actually working permissions. Including permissions on two levels to quote-post any content on a channel. Readily available right now at least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte.

Also, this is what people on Friendica and its descendants have been using quote-posts for since 2010.

You will be notified when someone quotes you.

You already are when someone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte quote-posts one of your posts.

As for Pleroma, Misskey and their forks, you aren't notified right now, and I've got my doubts that you will be after this change.

Also, "quote" and "quote-post" are two different things. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can do both. "Quote" is what I'm doing right here. Whether or not you're notified depends on whether or not you're mentioned.

And blocking quotes is even less possible. A quote only consists of a pair of BBcode tags plus the quoted text in-between. And on Friendica and all its descendants, you don't work with a WYSIWYG editor by default, but you have to get your hands dirty on raw markup code.

You will be able to withdraw your post from the quoted context at any time.

Again, probably not if someone on Pleroma, Misskey or one of their forks quote-posts you.

And definitely not if someone on Friendica or one of its descendants quote-posts you.

The difference is that a quote-post on Pleroma, Misskey or one of their forks is actually a reference to the original. On Friendica and its descendants, a quote-post is an automatically generated dumb copy of the original.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #CherryPick #Sharkey #Catodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
@Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩 If they notice.

Thing is: If someone on Pleroma, Akkoma, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte quote-posts someone else, that someone else is notified as if they've been mentioned. If they're notified when they're mentioned by a non-contact out of the blue, that is. Mods might not notice.

If someone on Misskey or any of its various still active forks and fork-forks quote-posts someone else, that someone else is not notified, and neither are any mods unless they happen upon the quote-post.

Also, nobody and nothing on Mastodon can prevent anybody outside of Mastodon from quote-posting anyone on Mastodon. And there's a whole lot outside of Mastodon that can and will always be able to quote-post Mastodon toots with zero resistance. See my start post in this thread for 18 server apps that can do that.

However, this much should be said: Friendica has had quote-posts for over 14 years. Hubzilla has had quote-posts for, technically speaking, almost 13 years. And never in all these years have quote-posts been used on either to harass anyone on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on Mastodon or elsewhere.

Sounds hard to believe for people who only know Twitter and Mastodon, I know. But Friendica and Hubzilla aren't almost entirely populated by people who came from Twitter. They aren't Twitter alternatives anyway. Friendica is a Facebook alternative, and Hubzilla is a Facebook alternative on coke and steroids. Both have a totally, completely different culture from Twitter as well as from Mastodon, both early Mastodon and today's Mastodon. There is no influence from Twitter on them whatsoever.

In fact, until Hubzilla 9.0 which came out this year, Hubzilla did not even have repeats (= retweets = boosts). It had always used quote-posts (= shared posts in Hubzilla lingo) for this purpose.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
Climate Justice SocialLasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩 (@LasseGismo@climatejustice.social)8.08K Posts, 930 Following, 496 Followers · Independent person with a pronounced tendency to rebelliousness, likes to drink, eat and sing in community, loves wild nature, avoids crowds, regularly goes bark beetle hunting, my longbow is my meditation utensil and my little buddy has long since defeated my pig dog. Ceterum censeo , alternatam pro germaniam esse delendam Fitted, with emotions from the Stone Age and structures from the Middle Ages, we try, with modern technology, to rule the earth.
Replied in thread
@Tejan Ausland Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.

For them, the Mastodon devs are the creators and keepers of the Fediverse itself as well as "the good guys" who have made the single most awesome piece of server software in decades. If the Mastodon devs even only imply that an opt-out or opt-in switch for quote-posts will bring absolute safety from being quote-posted, they take it at face value.

So when they opt out of being quote-posted, and someone from outside of Mastodon quote-posts them anyway, they won't blame it on the Mastodon devs having promised them something impossible. Never would the Mastodon devs do that.

Rather, the devs behind whatever that someone is using are the bad guys. They're rogues, they're evil hackers who have introduced quote-posts just to be able to spite and harass Mastodon users. Why else would something introduce quote-posts after all?

The one thing that'll protect wherever that someone is from their wrath is that most of them won't be able to figure out what that someone is using. Just because Mastodon users can look up a post at its source, doesn't mean they know they can, much less they actually do.

So they may try to get allegedly rogue instances Fediblocked just because these instances are non-Mastodon instances doing what they regularly do. They may succeed because at least some blocklist maintainers don't have a clue about the Fediverse outside Mastodon, its capabilities and its culture either. But it's unlikely that they'll pinpoint this culprit having used Sharkey, have all of Sharkey Fediblocked for being able to "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-out/opt-in, then pinpoint that the next quote-poster is using Akkoma and have all of Akkoma Fediblocked and so forth.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #FediblockMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Continued thread
By the way, there's exactly one way of being safe from being quote-posted in the Fediverse:

Move to Hubzilla or (streams). Keep all optional communications protocols off, including ActivityPub. Disallow quoting and mirroring of your posts entirely in your channel role (on Hubzilla) or keep your channel type on Limited ((streams)). Make sure that none of your contact roles (Hubzilla) or permission roles ((streams)) allows it. Try to live with only contacts on Hubzilla and (streams); none of them would ever use quote-posts for nefarious reasons, but better safe than sorry. Always post to a restricted audience so that sharing your posts isn't possible anyway. And never comment on public posts so that sharing your comments isn't possible either.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@✨ Pippa Cullen ✨ The second one is a link to the only post on my meme-themed (streams) channel in which I've explained everything right in the post instead of linking to external explanations because I thought that's what the majority wanted.

https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8

If this link doesn't work, this one will:

https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8

And for your convenience, here is a full, verbatim quote-post of the entire post (yes, Hubzilla has had quote-posts since its inception in 2015); unfortunately, the spoiler tag breaks when Hubzilla imports posts from (streams):

Jupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams) wrote the following post Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:13:57 +0200

One does not simply implement FEP-ef61

I guess my channel and its Fediverse connectivity is reliable enough now for a test post. The federation issues I had when the channel was new should be fixed.

It's my first attempt at my new meme-posting format with extensive explanations in the post which, I hope, are independent from any external information.

Image related.

[spoiler=Caution: Image hidden due to eye contact]

Explanation

In this use of the image macro version of the "One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor" meme, Boromir refers to how difficult it is to implement FEP-ef61 and ActivityPub-based nomadic identity into an existing Fediverse server application while developing both at the same time.

It is referring to the difficulties this (streams) channel of mine had in interacting with Hubzilla and connecting to anything non-nomadic and ActivityPub-based in late July and early August. I have registered my (streams) account on version 24.07.20 which was the version that rolled out the new address scheme as per FEP-ef61 plus a few extra features on the way to the implementation of nomadic identity via ActivityPub. Thus, my channels were among the first with the new address scheme and these new features. However, while I could establish a connection to my main Hubzilla channel, communication between these channels was between limited and impossible. And when I tried to follow Mastodon users from (streams), they didn't even notice.

Version 24.08.08 is said to have largely fixed these issues. I don't know because this instance has been upgraded straight from 24.08.03 which I haven't extensively tested to 24.08.12 on which these issues are largely fixed.

Find the following background explanations right below:
  • One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor
    • Snowclone
    • Image macro
    • Advice animal
    • Something Awful
    • 4chan and imageboards
  • Nomadic identity and FEP-ef61
    • Hubzilla, the streams repository and the Zot and Nomad protocols

Meme template explanation: One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor

"One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor" is a meme based on a quote from Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Peter Jackson's 2001 film adaptation of the first part of J.R.R. Tolkien's fantasy novel The Lord of the Rings.

The quote in question is from the scene in which Elrond, played by Hugo Weaving, explains the only possible way the One Ring can be destroyed which becomes the very mission of the novel and the film trilogy. Boromir, one of the Fellowship, played by Sean Bean, replies how utterly impossible this is to carry out.

[Elrond]
The ring cannot be destroyed, Gimli, son of Gloin, by any craft that we here possess. The ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom. Only there can it be unmade. The ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came. One of you must do this.

[Boromir]
One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. The great eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire, ash, and dust. The very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It is folly.


The first sentence said by Boromir was turned into a snowclone, and image macros based on the scene have traces of an advice animal.

Its early form as a snowclone was "One does not simply X into Mordor" with X standing for ways of locomotion or similar actions. It was followed by the variant "One does not simply walk into X" with X standing for destinations. Logically, "One does not simply X into Y" evolved.

This particular image macro uses another, later form, "One does not simply X" which generally describes actions that are difficult, nigh-impossible or actually impossible to carry out.

Digression: Snowclone

A snowclone is a phrase which has been turned into a template that can be and already has been used with its meaning slightly changed by replacing one or a few specific words in it.

It had been around for decades when the American linguist Geoffrey K. Pullum discovered it and wrote a blog post about it in October, 2003 in which he also laments the lack of a name for this phenomenon. The blog post was originally titled "Phrases for Lazy Writers in Kit Form", and the phrase "some-assembly-required adaptable cliché frames for lazy journalists" used in the blog post was accurate, but similarly unwieldy.

Pullum's linguist colleague Glen Whitman eventually suggested the term "snow clone" which he had invented himself, and which was first exposed to the public in another blog post by Pullum from January 16, 2004.

The term itself was based on what would become the very first snowclone: The phrase "If Eskimos have dozens of words for snow, Germans have as many for bureaucracy" had been snowcloned into "If Eskimos have dozens of words for snow, X have N words for Y" where X stands for a nation or a group of people, N stands for a number, and Y stands for what X allegedly have N of.

Over the following years, Pullum collected over 70 snowclones which had existed then already. These included:
  • "In space, no-one can hear you X." ("In space, no-one can hear you scream", a poster slogan in the 1979 science-fiction film Alien)
  • "X is the new Y." (Probably derived from pink being "the navy blue of India" as said by fashion columnist Diana Vreeland in 1962; originally "X is the new black")
  • "I, for one, welcome our new X overlords." ("I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords", said by Kent Brockman in the animated television series The Simpsons)
  • "Have X, will travel" ("Have gun, will travel", a decades-old stock phrase discovered by comedian Bob Hope)
  • "X are from Mars, Y are from Venus" ("Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" by author John Gray)

In the meantime, the age of Internet memes began. A whole lot of snowclones, often catalogued by Pullum as well, started out as these, for example:

  • "Im in ur X Y-ing ur Z" (Variants of "I am in your base killing your d00ds", allegedly first posted on the Web on the Something Awful forums in 2003)
  • "X-ers gonna X" ("Haters gonna hate" from the song "Playas Gon' Play" by 3LW from 2000 which itself turned the phrase into a snowclone already)
  • "Brace yourselves, X is coming" ("Brace yourselves, winter is coming", said by Ned Stark in the television series Game of Thrones)
  • "I don't always X, but when I do, I Y" ("I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis", said by the actor John Goldsmith in a television commercial for Dos Equis beer from 2006)
  • "My 'X' T-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt" ("My 'Not involved in human trafficking' T-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt", posted by comedian Mike McGinn on Twitter on November 20th, 2013)
  • "I sell X and X accessories" ("I sell propane and propane accessories", said by Hank Hill in the animated televisionseries King of the Hill)
  • "I've got N problems but X ain't one" ("I've got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one" from the rap song "99 Problems" by Jay-Z from 2004, itself a quote from the rap song "99 Problems" by Ice-T from 1993)

A more extensive list of snowclones, partially already described and explained, can be found in The Snowclone Database, created by linguistics student Erin O'Connor and launched in November, 2007.

Digression: Image macro

An image macro is an image with one or multiple witty pieces of text or catchphrases edited in, similar to captions. They were invented as early as 1905 by the photographer Harry Whitter Frees who took photographs of dressed-up cats and added captions, the first being, "What's delaying my dinner?"

On the World Wide Web, the Something Awful forums were one of the earliest places where image macros were regularly used. It was there where the term "image macro" was invented in early 2004. On February 12th, 2004, a user named Eclipse posted the first definition of the term. The definition is only accessible to logged-in users, so there is no link to it.

From 2005 on, image macros started spreading elsewhere, including the imageboard 4chan. It was there where the definite shape of image macros was created, namely including text in bold white letters using Monotype's Impact type face, pre-installed on Microsoft Windows, with black outlines. The most notable exception are demotivational posters, parodies of motivational posters that first came up in 1998, also because they have the text below the picture rather than on it.

Digression: Advice animal

An advice animal is a style of image macro that is usually built around a picture of a human, an animal or the like. Sometimes the picture is reduced to the character in the centre, and the background is replaced with a colour wheel which is individual for each template. In other cases, the image is only cropped around the character in the centre, and the background is left in.

A key element of advice animals is that they usually have text at the top and at the bottom which either automatically fit or are made to fit the character in the centre. It's usually a short joke with the setup at the top and the punchline at the bottom.

The foundation of the advice animal genre was laid at The Mushroom Kingdom, a fan forum for the Super Mario video game franchise, on September 7th, 2006. A user named TEM posted an edited version of a picture of his dog he had posted three days earlier, but with only the dog's head surrounded by a colour wheel with six colours. It wasn't used as an image macro with text yet back then, though. Even though the image is gone now, the thread is still there.

On July 5th, 2008, the image first appeared on the imageboard 4chan as image no. 76000000. After that, it was quickly turned into the Advice Dog image macro template. It was named "Advice Dog" because these image macros give "advice", but always of a kind that doesn't make much sense, and/or that should not really be followed. For example, the texts could be "Hire clowns" and "For funerals" respectively. From then on, an ever-increasing number of advice animals were created with or without a colour wheel.

Digression: Something Awful

Something Awful is a comedy Web site created by Richard "Lowtax" Kyanka in 1999. Amongst other things, it includes a blog and bulletin-board forums which have become the most influential part of Something Awful. These forums, whose users are rather known as Goons, were very active and influential in the creation and spreading of memes especially in the 2000s, maintaining a culture not quite unlike that of parts of the imageboard 4chan.

The Something Awful forums were the place where image macros were first culturally exploited online in larger quantities, and where they received that name.

Digression: 4chan and imageboards

4chan is an imageboard created by Christopher "moot" Poole in late 2003 as an English-speaking alternative to the Japanese imageboards 2channel (2ch in short) from 1999 and Futaba Channel (2chan in short) from 2001.

An imageboard is a special form of a Web forum which specialises in posting images and then commenting on the image posts. Sometimes the posts are actually about the images, sometimes the images are mere decoration for a post which inevitably required an image. Thus, images are key elements of imageboard culture, and imageboards are natural breeding-grounds for image memes. 4chan, in particular, was the driving force between many memes, meme genres and entire memetic fandoms throughout the 2000s and 2010s, also due to its extremely high activity.

Originally, imageboards were a Japanese invention. Early imageboards in English language were focused on Japanese media, particularly manga and anime, but they would also cover other topics later.

One feature that sets *chan imageboards apart from other online communities is that they can be used completely anonymously. Many don't even have user accounts which makes it difficult for users to identify themselves if they so desire. This is also the background of the collective and movement known as Anonymous: It started out on 4chan, and everyone who partook in it, like practically all 4chan users of course, "identified" themselves as "Anonymous". Thus, a swarm was born which is Anonymous because everyone in it is Anonymous.

Context explanation: Nomadic identity and FEP-ef61

FEP-ef61 is a so-called Fediverse Enhancement Proposal, FEP in short, a suggestion for an addition to the ActivityPub protocol upon which most of the Fediverse is built. As a suggestion, it already has a certain validity, and it can be implemented by Fediverse software.

FEP-ef61 in particular is a proposal for implementing something also known as nomadic identity in ActivityPub.

Nomadic identity is a Fediverse technology that detaches the Fediverse identity with everything that belongs to it from the underlying server, from the underlying login and account. It makes it possible for the same Fediverse identity to simultaneously reside on multiple servers.

Nomadic identity was invented in 2011 by Mike Macgirvin, an experienced developer with a particular skill for communication protocols. In 2010, he had already created a protocol named DFRN, short for Distributed Friends and Relations Network, and used it to build a very powerful, free, open-source, decentralised, federated Facebook alternative first known as Mistpark, then renamed Friendika with a "K" in late 2010, and eventually renamed Friendica with a "C" in early 2012. Friendica still exists, and it is part of the Fediverse.

Early on, Mike noticed one issue of decentralised projects: Server instances, even public ones with open registration, were generally run by private people. And not always were they long-lived. Sometimes admins of Friendika nodes announced the impending end of their nodes. Other nodes would shut down for good with no prior notice. Everyone who had an account on one of these nodes would always lose everything and have to start over elsewhere from scratch. The introduction of account export and import made moving possible, but it had its limitations, and it was of little protection against unannounced node shutdowns.

The only feasible solution was for online identities to no longer be bound to any one account on any one server, to simultaneously exist on multiple server instances. An entire ecosystem would have to be built around this feature so that user identities would know and understand that other user identities are spread across more than one server instance.

And so Mike conceived the idea of nomadic identity which should achieve just that. In order to uncouple a user's identity from the account, the user's data from connections to posts to files etc. was uncoupled from the account and placed into a container known as a channel. The account no longer had any control over identity or content; it only served to grant access to the channel. This channel would then be possible to be cloned onto an account on another server instance. The original, called the main instance, would supply the domain that would still be part of the ID.

The main instance and each clone would then be live, real-time, hot backups of each other. Anything that would happen on one of them, a post being sent, a post being received, a new contact being established, a file being uploaded, would be almost immediately synchronised to the others to keep all of them identical.

A key element of nomadic identity was for the user to be able to log onto any server where they had a clone of their channel and use it there. One or several servers with instances of the channel on them could be offline, but with any one of them still being online and accessible, the channel would remain active. Also, it would be possible to make one of the clones the new main instance. The ID would switch to the domain of the server with the main instance on it, and all connections would be modified accordingly, including on remote servers.

Still in 2011, Mike implemented nomadic identity in a new protocol named Zot. In early 2012, Mike forked his own project Friendica, named the fork Red, after Spanish "la red" which means "the network", and re-wrote the entire backend and large parts of the frontend against Zot.

Today, nomadic identity is available on Hubzilla, which evolved from Red or, as it was called from 2013 on, the Red Matrix in 2015, and in what is commonly called (streams) from 2021. Hubzilla is based on the latest stable version of the Zot protocol, Zot6, and (streams) is based on an incompatible descendant of Zot named Nomad. Nomadic identity in ActivityPub is still in an early stage of development and not available to regular users.

Digression: Hubzilla, the streams repository and the Zot and Nomad protocols

Hubzilla (official Web site) is a Fediverse server application that is a multi-purpose combination of a social network, a cloud server and a content management system. It was derived from the Facebook alternative Friendica by Friendica's own creator, Mike Macgirvin. It has been around since March, 2015, ten months before Mastodon was launched. It is based on the Zot6 protocol which provides nomadic identity, but it can also use a number of other protocols, including but not limited to ActivityPub, OStatus and the diaspora* protocol.

The streams repository is an open-source code repository on Codeberg which contains a distant descendant of Hubzilla, created and still being developed by Mike Macgirvin and focusing on secure, private, nomadic social networking. This server application is intentionally without a name and without branding in any shape or form, and it was just as intentionally released into the public domain.

The history of both began in 2010 when it had been revealed that Facebook spied on its users and made money off their private data without their consent, in fact, without even telling them. From March to July, Mike built a free, open-source, decentralised Facebook alternative named Mistpark. It had some extra features such as full long-form blogging capability, no character limit, multiple profiles per account which could be assigned to specific contacts, groups of contacts which pre-dated diaspora*'s aspects and Google+'s circles, built-in file storage and an event calendar.

It was built on top of Mike's own protocol DFRN which is short for Distributed Friends and Relations Network. In addition, it supported other protocols such as OpenMicroBlogging, later OStatus, the protocol created by Evan Prodromou in 2008 for Laconi.ca, meanwhile StatusNet, which was later merged into GNU social, and it both could subscribe to RSS and Atom feeds and produced Atom feeds itself. It would later gain the ability to connect to diaspora*, the crowd-funded, highly anticipated decentralised "Facebook killer" whose first early alpha version came out two months after Mistpark.

Later the same year, a German user told Mike that "Mistpark" sounds like German for "manure park" whereupon it was renamed "Friendika" with a "K". The spelling would finally be changed to "Friendica" with a "C" in early 2012.

As a countermeasure against people losing their online identities whenever a Friendika node shut down, Mike conceived nomadic identity and created a new protocol named Zot in 2011. In early 2012, he forked recently renamed Friendica into a new project named Red after the Spanish word for "network" and mostly rebuilt it into a Zot testbed. As the name didn't work well enough, it was renamed "Red Matrix" before seeing its first stable release in 2013. Along with the rebuild, it received support for nomadic identity and multiple channels on one account as well as a new permissions system.

But Friendica was mostly targetted at self-hosters of personal instances which made nomadic identity largely superfluous, and the Red Matrix didn't have any significant advantages otherwise that would justify the switch from Friendica for node admins. So in early 2015, the Red Matrix was redesigned to be more attractive to public server admins. It was turned into a multi-purpose system and received features such as a CalDAV calendar server which shares a GUI with the calendar inherited from Friendica, a CardDAV address book server, long-form articles, a wiki engine and a Web page server. And thus, Hubzilla was born in March.

In order to further develop the Zot protocol, Mike created two new forks in 2018, Osada and Zap. Both lost many of Hubzilla's content management system features. Zap was reduced to only Zot as the remaining supported protocol to keep interference from non-nomadic protocols out, also because Mike expected the new protocol version Zot6 to be incompatible with non-nomadic protocols. Osada, in the meantime, kept many of Hubzilla's connection features, but lost nomadic identity. It was intended as a gateway between Zap and the rest of the Fediverse.

As this didn't work out, and Zot6 turned out to be compatible with ActivityPub, Osada was discontinued and re-created as a soft fork of Zap which received ActivityPub capabilities. Now, the only differences between the two were ActivityPub and the branding, and in 2019, after Zap had received ActivityPub support itself, it was just whether ActivityPub was on or off by default, next to the branding. So Osada, which had seen a stable release along with Zap, was discontinued yet again. But along with Zap, Zot6 had matured and brought a new feature along with itself, namely a magic single sign-on system named OpenWebAuth which automatically detects users logged in on other instances.

In 2020, Hubzilla was upgraded to Zot6 and equipped with OpenWebAuth. Also, Mike made three new forks based on Zap to work on Zot8, another Osada, Redmatrix 2020 and Mistpark 2020, also known as Misty. The intention appeared to be to have three states of development, but in fact, all three always shared the same code, save for the branding. Mike would later admit that the actual reason why he made three forks was to confuse the brand fetishists. Crossgrading between all three and Zap was possible.

Probably because the new Osada and Misty were actually used for public instances, Mike forked one of the three into a new project named Roadhouse in early 2021. Zot was about to reach a point at which it would become incompatible with previous Zot versions. So Zot11, which Roadhouse was based upon, was renamed Nomad. Zap, the third Osada, Redmatrix 2020 and Misty could be upgraded to Roadhouse by rebasing the server code.

In October of 2021, Mike forked Roadhouse into a successor which he intentionally left nameless and brandless. He released most of it into the public domain with the exception of some contributions to official add-ons whose licenses he left untouched. This combination made it unfeasible for commercial software companies to try and relicense the whole thing to something proprietary and non-free. It also had most nodeinfo code removed, it doesn't transmit any statistics, and it is intentionally kept away from Fediverse project and instance listing sites. These probably couldn't crawl for and discover instances anyway because this server application is the only one in the Fediverse with an easily customisable and therefore not unified identifier for server instances.

The code repository with this software inside needed a name, though, and so it was named streams.

When the word about this software spread, enthusiasts decided they needed something to call this software by instead of just referring to the repository. So they started calling it (streams) in parentheses. It was originally intended for other developers to fork and use in their own work, but people started running vanilla (streams) instances.

(streams) was simplified further in order to make development and maintenance easier. In addition to its own Nomad protocol and Hubzilla's Zot6 protocol, it only supports ActivityPub. But ActivityPub support was moved from an add-on into the core because Nomad allowed for a closer integration of ActivityPub than Zot6 for which non-nomadic protocols are a hindrance. Even the RSS and Atom aggregator was removed, as well as support for multiple profiles per channel. On the other hand, the permissions system was improved further over Hubzilla's.

Unlike its four predecessors, (streams) was considered a stable release, as was its Nomad protocol. On New Year's Eve of 2022, Mike officially discontinued Zap, Osada, Redmatrix 2020, Mistpark 2020 and Roadhouse. Instances of all five could be upgraded to (streams).

In 2023, Mike began to work on implementing nomadic identity in ActivityPub itself. One goal was to one day make Nomad and Zot superfluous. The other goal was to make it possible for the whole Fediverse to become nomadic beyond project borders. FEP-ef61 was to become a key element in this work, and (streams) became the development platform.

In August of 2024, Mike forked a new project named Forte off the streams repository, the first and so far only (streams) fork. Its exact goal is still unclear, but it might be what Mike will use to experiment with new features and developments, seeing as (streams) has unexpectedly become a daily driver for a few dozen users already.

#FEP_ef61 #Nomadic Identity #Meme #FediMeme #Fediverse Meme #Snowclone #One Does Not Simply #Sensitive #⚠️

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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
Replied in thread
@Stefan Bohacek
Also worth mentioning that quote boosts, which have also recently received funding, will include work on privacy and safety features around them, possibly extending to other areas of the online experience.

These "privacy and safety features" are non-sense.

They're proprietary, they're non-standard, they're Mastodon-specific. And they are expected to work only by respecting a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific quote-post permission flag which probably won't even be documented anywhere except Mastodon's server code.

The opt-out feature will only work within a 100% Mastodon bubble and even that only if no non-Mastodon user finds content from within this bubble by searching mastodon.social for hashtags.

Mastodon is selling its whole quote-post feature as a total revolution, as the very introduction of quote-posts to the Fediverse. And it will work. I've once run a poll on whether the Fediverse has quote-posts. 71% of all voters thought the Fediverse does not have quote-posts right now. And that was in my bubble which, in comparison to Mastodon in general, is fairly Fediverse-savvy and full of non-Mastodon users.

But as a matter of fact, the Fediverse does have quote-posts right now! Almost everything that can do microblogging in a way has quote-posts.

Pleroma has quote-posts.

Akkoma has quote-posts.

Misskey has quote-posts.

Firefish has quote-posts.

Iceshrimp has quote-posts.

Iceshrimp.NET has quote-posts.

Sharkey has quote-posts.

Catodon has quote-posts.

Friendica has quote-posts.

Hubzilla has quote-posts.

(streams) has quote-posts.

And so forth.

They haven't introduced quote-posts to spite Mastodon. Some of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed. Friendica, for example, was created with quote-posts available, and that was five and a half years before Mastodon was created. For as long as Mastodon has existed, Friendica could quote-post Mastodon toots. And so could Hubzilla, created ten months before Mastodon.

In fact, all of the above can quote-post any Mastodon toot right now, with no problems, with zero resistance.

Guess what'll change when Mastodon introduces quote-posts plus the opt-in switch.

Well, Mastodon will be able to quote-post. Mastodon might be able to display quote-posts from outside properly, but probably not because it's ignoring that the rest of the Fediverse can quote-post.

But the rest of the Fediverse will still be able to quote-post just about all Mastodon toots. With no problems. With zero resistance. Even with the opt-in switched to off.

Because that switch is proprietary, non-standard and Mastodon-specific. Because only Mastodon even supports it.

This switch will cause many many more Mastodon users to learn the hard way that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. Namely by encountering a post or comment from something that does not behave like Mastodon. And many many more Mastodon users will shit bricks in sheer terror upon this revelation.

If Mastodon really wanted this switch to be 100% waterproof, it would have to implement the feature request in its entirety. That includes defederation from all Fediverse instances that don't respect the opt-in switch.

Mind you, the defederation clause and the entire feature request came from someone in the firm belief that the Fediverse is Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. Just like about every other Mastodon user out there. So it was only targetted at rogue Mastodon instances with hacked source code.

In reality, however, it would require entire non-Mastodon Fediverse projects to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch.

All instances of Pleroma, of Akkoma, of Misskey, of Firefish, of Iceshrimp including Iceshrimp.NET, of Sharkey, of Catodon, of Friendica, of Hubzilla, of (streams) and so forth would have to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch. Every last one of them.

Mastodon's quote-post feature will either cause a rift through the Fediverse if this rule is put into action or even more people to shit bricks in terror and escape to Bluesky if it isn't.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Fedisplaining #CWFedisplaining #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #Sharkey #Catodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediblockMeta